ClaimsNassim Taleb

“They ended up right in predicting the crisis, but lose $10 billion from the "hedge".”

Nassim Taleb, paper author 2019 On the Statistical Differences between Binary Forecasts and Real World Payoffs (arXiv) archived copy

Factual Economics and markets

Morgan Stanley correctly predicted the financial crisis but lost $10 billion on its hedge.

Resolved true The record shows it happened or was so.

Factual: Statements about the present or the past, checked against the record: did they hold up?

What would count as true or false

The claim is that Morgan Stanley correctly predicted the financial crisis (the subprime collapse) but lost about $10 billion on its hedge, meaning the trade in Howie Hubler's group that paired short subprime positions with long super-senior CDO positions. The figure is stated as '$10 billion', so a reported loss of roughly $9-11 billion is acceptable. True: credible reporting shows Morgan Stanley took a bearish subprime position and lost about $9-11 billion on the associated position. Mostly true: the story is right, but the loss figure is somewhat further off (for example $7-9 billion or $11-13 billion), or the position is wrongly called a 'hedge'. Mixed: the loss happened but Morgan Stanley's bearish call was partial or only one part of the claim holds. Mostly false: there was a loss, but it was far from $10 billion or not tied to a correct crisis bet. False: no such episode occurred.

Set before the research began.

Evidence (4)

  1. E1 Howie Hubler - Wikipedia Wikipedia · 25 August 2015

    “His actions while handling credit default swaps (CDSs) directly resulted in the loss of roughly US$9 billion during the 2008 financial crisis”
  2. E2 Howie Hubler - Wikipedia Wikipedia · 25 August 2015

    “He made a successful short trade in risky subprime mortgages in the U.S., but to fund his trade he sold insurance on AAA-rated mortgage-backed collateralized debt obligations that market analysts considered less risky”
  3. E3 STRATTE-MCCLURE v. Stanley United States District Court, Southern District of New York (CourtListener) · 4 April 2011

    “Morgan Stanley then hedged this short position by selling credit default swaps on approximately $13.2 billion of higher-rated “super senior” CDOs.”
  4. E4 STRATTE-MCCLURE v. Stanley United States District Court, Southern District of New York (CourtListener) · 4 April 2011

    “On November 2, 2007, Morgan Stanley dismissed Howard Hubler, the managing director of the Proprietary Trading Group who had negotiated the swap positions.”

Reasoning

E2 says Howie Hubler's group at Morgan Stanley made a successful short trade on U.S. subprime mortgages and funded it by selling insurance on AAA-rated CDOs. E3 is a federal court opinion summarising the complaint, and it describes the same short position as hedged with credit default swaps on about $13.2 billion of super-senior CDOs. E1 puts the resulting loss at roughly $9 billion, which falls within the criteria's accepted range of $9-11 billion. E4 links Hubler to these swap positions.

Cite this claim

Nassim Taleb, “Morgan Stanley correctly predicted the financial crisis but lost $10 billion on its hedge.” (said 2019). Verdict: resolved true. Reliability API, claim c_0fe2f677e432, method 0.1.0+28da144b, dataset release v1.1.2. https://epistacklabs.com/claims/c_0fe2f677e432

This claim is in dataset release v1.1.2, with the same verdict.

Reply to this claim

For Nassim Taleb, or someone speaking for them: a correction or counter-evidence. Replies are read before anything is shown; an approved reply shows your name, role, date, statement and link. Your email address is never shown and is deleted 30 days after the decision (privacy).

More factual claims by Nassim Taleb

  1. Mixed Factual 25 September 2025
    “My point was that bike lanes contribute to IMPROVEMENT in well-being and happiness WITHOUT generating economic growth.”

    Taleb's point was that bike lanes improve well-being and happiness without generating economic growth.

  2. Resolved true Factual 22 September 2025
    “The entire article misses the point that Spitz has been bullish past 3 years.”

    Spitz has been bullish on markets for the past 3 years.

  3. Mixed Factual 2023
    “It is worth noting that binary options on financial”

    Binary options on financial instruments proved of little economic value and are not considered an investment in the U.S. and the European Union.

  4. Mostly true Factual 2023
    “they are banned by most corresponding regulators, as they are”

    Binary options are banned by most corresponding regulators in the U.S. and the European Union because they are considered gambling devices.

  5. Mostly false Factual November 2021
    “We know that economic forecasts work no better than astrology”

    Economic forecasts work no better than astrology.

All of them

Verdicts are made automatically; how verdicts are made.