ClaimsEliezer Yudkowsky

“The people who first invented and spread and swallowed the communist meme were, in sober historical fact, idealists.”

Eliezer Yudkowsky, essay author 2008 Artificial Intelligence as a Positive and Negative Factor in Global Risk (MIRI)

Factual Philosophy, ethics and society

The people who first invented and spread communism were idealists acting with good intentions.

Unresolvable The public record could not settle it.

Factual: Statements about the present or the past, checked against the record: did they hold up?

The second judge would not resolve this claim; the verdict shown is the first judge's.

What would count as true or false

Judged as of 2008 against mainstream historical scholarship on the originators and early spreaders of communist ideas (Marx, Engels, and the early socialist and communist movements of the mid-to-late 19th century). TRUE: mainstream biographies and histories characterise these founders and early adherents as mainly motivated by sincere idealistic aims, such as ending exploitation and improving workers' conditions. MOSTLY TRUE: the idealism characterisation is mainstream, but a minor detail is off, e.g. the core ideas originated in the 1840s (the Communist Manifesto was 1848) rather than the 'late 19th century', or some notable early figures were also driven by personal ambition. MIXED: historians are roughly divided, or the early founders are portrayed as idealists but key early spreaders are not. MOSTLY FALSE: mainstream scholarship mainly portrays the originators as driven by resentment, personal ambition or a desire for power, with idealism a secondary or rhetorical element. FALSE: historians generally hold that the originators were not idealists acting with good intentions.

Set before the research began.

Evidence (4)

  1. E1 Communism - Marxist Theory, Class Struggle, Revolution Encyclopaedia Britannica · 30 October 2026

    “Like Marx, Engels was deeply disturbed by what he regarded as the injustices of a society divided by class. Appalled by the poverty and squalor in which ordinary workers lived and worked, he described their misery in grisly detail in The Condition of the English Working Class (1844).”
  2. E2 Communism - Marxist Theory, Class Struggle, Revolution Encyclopaedia Britannica · 30 October 2026

    “He then turned to journalism, where his investigations disclosed what he perceived as systematic injustice and corruption at all levels of German society.”
  3. E3 Communist League James G. Chastain (Encyclopedia of the Marxist/Communist League entry, Ohio University site) · 15 October 2004

    “In a complicated process of secession from the petit-bourgeoisie democratic League of the Proscribed between 1836 and 1838 in Paris, the first independent German workers' organization was established”
  4. E4 Gareth Stedman Jones. Karl Marx. Greatness and Illusion. Allen Lane, London [etc.] 2016. xvii, 750 pp. Ill. Maps. £25.95; $35.00; €31.50. | International Review of Social History | Cambridge Core Cambridge University Press (International Review of Social History) · 4 August 2017

    “Stedman Jones seeks to offer a more mundane and contradictory picture of Marx”

Reasoning

Britannica says Marx and Engels were disturbed by what they saw as injustice and poverty [E1, E2], but no evidence item shows what mainstream scholarship as a whole says about the motives of the founders and early spreaders of communism. The 'minor detail' behind 'mostly true' was a late-19th-century dating that the subject did not claim [E1, E3], so the evidence does not settle the claim under the criteria.

Cite this claim

Eliezer Yudkowsky, “The people who first invented and spread communism were idealists acting with good intentions.” (said 2008). Verdict: unresolvable. Reliability API, claim c_e472cbbeb10e, method 0.1.0+c876030c, dataset release v1.1.2. https://epistacklabs.com/claims/c_e472cbbeb10e

This claim is in dataset release v1.1.2, with the same verdict.

Reply to this claim

For Eliezer Yudkowsky, or someone speaking for them: a correction or counter-evidence. Replies are read before anything is shown; an approved reply shows your name, role, date, statement and link. Your email address is never shown and is deleted 30 days after the decision (privacy).

More factual claims by Eliezer Yudkowsky

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    “but the process is not really open to human introspection.”

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  2. Mixed Factual 20 April 2026
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    Yudkowsky himself observed the persona-selection-like hypothesis around the time of GPT 3.5.

  3. Mostly true Factual 20 April 2026
    “The test-passing preference stands on its own once formed.”

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  4. Mostly true Factual 20 April 2026
    “LLMs surely have neural circuits they learned to model text streams from fictional and nonfictional personas that are not lying, deceiving, cheating.”

    LLMs surely have neural circuits they learned to model text streams from fictional and nonfictional personas that are not lying, deceiving…

  5. Mostly true Factual 20 April 2026
    “The predict-as-if-honest circuitry is contextual, invoked to predict some streams of text but not others.”

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All of them

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