ClaimsPeter Thiel

“The revelation may be slow (because it contains a message that humans do not wish to hear), but it is not reversible.”

Peter Thiel, essay author 2007 The Straussian Moment (gwern.net (PDF))

This quote could not be matched word for word to the source page.

Factual Philosophy, ethics and society

In Girard's view, the Judeo-Western revelation may be slow because humans do not wish to hear its message, but it is not reversible.

Mixed Partly true and partly false in roughly equal measure.

Factual: Statements about the present or the past, checked against the record: did they hold up?

The second judge would not resolve this claim; the verdict shown is the first judge's.

What would count as true or false

Test against René Girard's own writings and interviews (e.g. Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World, I See Satan Fall Like Lightning, Battling to the End). True: Girard holds that the Judeo-Christian revelation exposing the scapegoat mechanism spreads slowly or meets resistance because people resist its message, and that once given it cannot be undone or reversed. Mostly true: Girard clearly holds both ideas, though in slightly different terms (e.g. 'resistance' or 'misunderstanding' rather than 'not wishing to hear'). Mixed: only one of the two parts (slowness from resistance, irreversibility) is supported by Girard's texts. Mostly false: Girard's view on one part is significantly different (e.g. he treats the revelation's effects as reversible or likely to be lost), with only a loose link to the other. False: Girard's writings contradict both parts.

Set before the research began.

Evidence (12)

  1. E1 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpt of Religion journal, 1997, reprinting a 1996 James Williams interview with René Girard) · 1997 Own record

    “I naively thought that everyone would agree with my theory immediately, because I saw it as so obvious and overpowering.”
  2. E2 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpt of Religion journal, 1997, reprinting a 1996 James Williams interview with René Girard) · 1997 Own record

    “They simply do not understand the enormous difference that the representation of scapegoating makes.”
  3. E3 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpt of Religion journal, 1997, reprinting a 1996 James Williams interview with René Girard) · 1997 Own record

    “In the Gospels we have the revelation of the mechanism that dominates culture unconsciously.”
  4. E4 Transcript of Girard Lecture V | The Christian Revelation johnathanbi.com (lecture transcript) · 25 December 2022

    “It is the pivot point where history gets taken out of a cyclical view and thrown into a linear trajectory.”
  5. E5 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpts of a 1996 interview with René Girard, published in Religion, Academic Press, 1997) · 1997

    “I naively thought that everyone would agree with my theory immediately, because I saw it as so obvious and overpowering.”
  6. E6 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpts of a 1996 interview with René Girard, published in Religion, Academic Press, 1997) · 1997

    “This is the mistake so many theologians and biblical scholars have made regarding the mimetic scapegoat theory. They simply do not understand the enormous difference that the representation of scapegoating makes.”
  7. E7 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpts of a 1996 interview with René Girard, published in Religion, Academic Press, 1997) · 1997

    “But as soon as he is immersed in a mob of scapegoaters, he surrenders to the mimetic pressure and joins them.”
  8. E8 Girard, René - Comments on Christianity, Scapegoating & Sacrifice, (1997) 27 Religion 249 Scribd (excerpts of a 1996 interview with René Girard, published in Religion, Academic Press, 1997) · 1997

    “In the Gospels we have the revelation of the mechanism that dominates culture unconsciously.”
  9. E9 Violence and the Sacred at Fifty: Mimetic Desire, the Scapegoat Mechanism, and its Destructive Revelation Giornale di filosofia (Sapienza Università di Roma), by Sandor Goodhart · 2022

    “The fact that the arbitrariness of the scapegoat process, and the innocence of the victim of the crimes with which he or she is charged, is suddenly available, is no guarantee that the sacrificial practices will end, or not quickly become neo-sacrificial, acting as if the revelation was never given at all.”
  10. E10 Violence and the Sacred at Fifty: Mimetic Desire, the Scapegoat Mechanism, and its Destructive Revelation Giornale di filosofia (Sapienza Università di Roma), by Sandor Goodhart · 2022

    “But the history of the understanding of that theory he notes is a slow one.”
  11. E11 Scandals, Scapegoats, and the Cross: An Interview with René Girard Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Dialogue Journal) · April 2009

    “Or suddenly there occurs a regression. The twentieth century was a period of great regression because of Marxism and Nazism.”
  12. E12 Scandals, Scapegoats, and the Cross: An Interview with René Girard Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Dialogue Journal) · April 2009

    “We are not Christian enough to be fully Christian, but we are Christian enough to be ashamed and therefore resort less efficiently to the mechanism.”

Reasoning

The evidence partly supports the first part of the claim: understanding of the revelation has been slow and has met misunderstanding [E10, E6]. Goodhart reports that Girard saw the history of understanding his theory as slow (E10). Girard says theologians "do not understand" what the Gospels reveal about scapegoating (E6) and describes people giving in to mimetic pressure (E7). The second part, that the revelation cannot be reversed, is not clearly supported. Girard speaks of a "great regression" in the twentieth century (E11), and Goodhart says societies can carry on "as if the revelation was never given" (E9). Girard's remark that we are "Christian enough to be ashamed" (E12) points to some lasting effect, but none of the quotes says outright that the revelation cannot be undone.

Cite this claim

Peter Thiel, “In Girard's view, the Judeo-Western revelation may be slow because humans do not wish to hear its message, but it is not reversible.” (said 2007). Verdict: mixed. Reliability API, claim c_641c5b6c16ca, method 0.1.0+3e03e2df, dataset release v1.1.2. https://epistacklabs.com/claims/c_641c5b6c16ca

This claim is in dataset release v1.1.2, with the same verdict.

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More factual claims by Peter Thiel

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    Anti-communism was in some ways Peter Thiel's formative political idea as a teenager in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

  3. Mostly true Factual April 2024
    “Girard liked to always say that Christ was the first political atheist”

    René Girard often said that Christ was the first political atheist.

  4. Mostly true Factual April 2024
    “It’s much harder to exit the United States than it was 20, 30 years ago.”

    It is much harder to exit the United States than it was 20 to 30 years ago.

  5. Resolved true Factual April 2024
    “I was extremely influenced by the Reese-Mogg–Davidson book, 1997,”

    Peter Thiel was extremely influenced by the 1997 book The Sovereign Individual by Rees-Mogg and Davidson.

All of them

Verdicts are made automatically; how verdicts are made.